View Full Version : Anyone else nervous about Single Action for Concealed Carry?
Remphoto
11-16-2008, 12:26 PM
I have a 1911, but am nervous about carrying it. Somehow the "cocked and locked" action seems too easy to discharge accidentally while drawing. Think that is one of the reasons that SA has limited use by police and the armed forces. Any thoughts?
I have a 1911, but am nervous about carrying it. Somehow the "cocked and locked" action seems too easy to discharge accidentally while drawing. Think that is one of the reasons that SA has limited use by police and the armed forces. Any thoughts?
Do you keep the weapon with a round chambered, the hammer cocked and safety on? I keep a round chambered but don't keep the hammer cocked and no safety on. I know I can cock the hammer as quickly as I can release the safety and feel much safer that way but it's all what you feel comfortable with and practice. IMHO
Remphoto
11-16-2008, 02:12 PM
Max, I feel a little nervous about keeping the hammer down with bullet chambered because, unless i am missing something, I have to decock it with a live round and afraid to do that. Also not sure if with hammer down the hammer could be bumped and discharge the gun. Normally I have the magazine loaded but nothing in the chamber. This means I have to rack the action to be ready to shoot, which might not be quick enough. I'm probably just being paranoid as many experts say cocked and locked with safety on is very safe because the grip safety device adds extra security. Even a double action handgun can be accidentally discharged because some of them (Glocks) don't even have a safety. Just draw and pull the trigger (albeit a pretty firm pull is required for the first round).
I sure like the look, feel and light trigger on a 1911, though. And mine shoots very tight groups.
Rob
If you notice there are two stages to the hammer on a 1911, if you release it to the first step it actually blocks the hammer from impacting the firing pin. If you do not keep a round in the chamber then of course there is no problem but I wonder about keeping the safety on if you have no round chambered. Seems like an extra step not needed especially considering a round cannot be chambered with the safety on. I don't know that there is a right or a wrong way just different ways and what ever makes you feel comfortable.
Oriondk
11-16-2008, 05:31 PM
Cocked and locked really shouldn't be a problem. You have to have the grip saftey depressed for the gun to fire. You have to take the safety off and you have to depress the trigger. When you draw, you shouldn't be taking the safety off until the gun is out of the holster and you're raising to fire. Not to mention not putting you finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot. It seems a lot safer than a Glock which only requires the trigger to be depressed.
That being said, you should do what you feel comfortable with. I don't know if you dry fire or not, but you may want to practice drawing from the cocked and locked condition. Practice is important no matter what condition you carry in.
rjrivero
11-17-2008, 12:43 AM
Max, I feel a little nervous about keeping the hammer down with bullet chambered because, unless i am missing something, I have to decock it with a live round and afraid to do that. Also not sure if with hammer down the hammer could be bumped and discharge the gun. Normally I have the magazine loaded but nothing in the chamber. This means I have to rack the action to be ready to shoot, which might not be quick enough. I'm probably just being paranoid as many experts say cocked and locked with safety on is very safe because the grip safety device adds extra security. Even a double action handgun can be accidentally discharged because some of them (Glocks) don't even have a safety. Just draw and pull the trigger (albeit a pretty firm pull is required for the first round).
I sure like the look, feel and light trigger on a 1911, though. And mine shoots very tight groups.
Rob
The Isralis carry 1911's with an empty chamber. When they draw, they stroke the slide against their thigh to chamber the round. The use the rear sight to catch on their jeans. So it's a two step draw, but it's pretty easy to do, with practice its pretty quick too!
budroe
11-18-2008, 04:12 AM
I personally would feel a lot safer carrying cocked and locked than with the hammer down, or an empty chamber. I've been carrying a Colt Commander for twenty-some years cocked and locked with no problems. You just have to go with what you feel comfortable with.
Tusker
11-18-2008, 04:59 AM
I personally would feel a lot safer carrying cocked and locked than with the hammer down, or an empty chamber. I've been carrying a Colt Commander for twenty-some years cocked and locked with no problems. You just have to go with what you feel comfortable with.
Once again Bud and I are on the same page. Most, if not all of you have seen this before. It STAYS cocked & Locked. Everywhere. Including at home. The crap around here seems to get closer every day. I simply refuse to be a victim. :)
http://www.fototime.com/3E82BA51EF3AFC0/standard.jpg
StrawHat
11-20-2008, 03:43 PM
No dog in this fight, but if I had the 1911 platform I'd carry it the way it was designed. Condition 1. The Israelis stopped using Condiution 3 after getting adequate training.
Tusker, as nice as that Commander is, what caught my eye was the Randall. Of all the photos you have posted that one is causing me to lose my grip on my wallet.
Tusker
11-20-2008, 05:21 PM
Tusker, as nice as that Commander is, what caught my eye was the Randall. Of all the photos you have posted that one is causing me to lose my grip on my wallet.[/QUOTE]
SH~ Yeah, that little pathfinder is a nice one. :) I saw a different version with a Stag, finger grip handle and a brass cap but at my age I just cannot justify
any more knives. :( However, if I found a good 'ALASKA SKINNER" :D I might be tempted. :)
CAJUN
11-20-2008, 08:46 PM
I carry a colt mustang 380 on my ankle and it's cocked and locked,never had a problem.
Once again Bud and I are on the same page. Most, if not all of you have seen this before. It STAYS cocked & Locked. Everywhere. Including at home. The crap around here seems to get closer every day. I simply refuse to be a victim. :)
http://www.fototime.com/3E82BA51EF3AFC0/standard.jpg
Tusker,
You may want to double check that weapon, it looks cocked but it ain't locked :cool:
Just kidding...........
Tusker
11-22-2008, 11:48 PM
Mark~ Years ago a buddy of mine who had a shop had a 45 knocked off the workbench in the shop. There was a round in the chamber and the sucker went off. No one hurt, but made one hell of a noise. :) I never leave a round in the chamber when taking photos. Leaves, wet wood and loaded guns don't mix. :):cool:
It was my understanding that the 1991 and later models 1911's came with a drop proof firing pin design. I know the older ones could go off if dropped but I haven't heard of a later one doing that.
Remphoto
11-30-2008, 02:23 AM
It was my understanding that the 1991 and later models 1911's came with a drop proof firing pin design. I know the older ones could go off if dropped but I haven't heard of a later one doing that.
Would make for an interesting test. Any volunteers? Mythbusters?:)
This is direct from Colt
MFG Model No:O1091
Stainless Steel Slide, hardware and frame - Government Classic
Series 80 with the 1991 Updated System - drop safe firing pin safety system
CLASSIC 1911A1 Style Pistol Series
Semi-Auto Pistol
45 ACP
Remphoto
11-30-2008, 02:35 AM
This is direct from Colt
MFG Model No:O1091
Stainless Steel Slide, hardware and frame - Government Classic
Series 80 with the 1991 Updated System - drop safe firing pin safety system
CLASSIC 1911A1 Style Pistol Series
Semi-Auto Pistol
45 ACP
Does this apply just to newer Colt Model 1911's or was this a standard that has been adopted by all 1911 clones? Given the 1911's cocked and locked design characteristics this would seem to be a major safety improvement.
jim fox
11-30-2008, 02:39 AM
Series 80 (and newer) Colts have a passive firing pin block - as does Kimber, starting with their Series II guns. I presume some of the other makers do as well.
The other way of dealing with the problem is to have a heavier firing pin spring.
Remphoto
11-30-2008, 02:42 AM
Is there a way to determine whether my SA 1911 has one of these features?
jim fox
11-30-2008, 04:14 AM
Is there a way to determine whether my SA 1911 has one of these features?
I don't know - other than to read the manual and hope it's mentioned. Call the customer service folks? I believe California (and maybe other states) required testing for drop safety. If so, a check to see if any given model is legal for sale in California?
Popeye
11-30-2008, 04:24 AM
SA, Inc 1911 pistols offered for sale in California do not have a "drop safety". They do use a considerably heavier firing pin spring than 1911 pistols with the safety.
Tusker
11-30-2008, 05:09 AM
Yes, take the slide off and turn it bottom up. there is a small pin showing that protrudes from the slide, there is a spring loaded little piece of metal in the slide that works this firing pin block, as shown on the top of the slide in this photo.
I had this apart for cleaning so:
THE SLIDE:
http://www.fototime.com/225A6AA93903725/standard.jpg
THE FRAME:
http://www.fototime.com/5F91E2A76F9CFAA/standard.jpg
Oriondk
11-30-2008, 05:15 AM
I don't know - other than to read the manual and hope it's mentioned. Call the customer service folks? I believe California (and maybe other states) required testing for drop safety. If so, a check to see if any given model is legal for sale in California?
Yep, California requires drops test on all handguns before they are approved for sale. Here the DOJ list. You can check it for your model.
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
crebralfix
12-22-2008, 10:25 PM
Not really...if that's all I had, then that's what I'd use. If circumstances required it, I wouldn't have a problem carrying my Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt.
However, I shoot way too fast for it.
Oriondk
12-24-2008, 04:40 AM
Not really...if that's all I had, then that's what I'd use. If circumstances required it, I wouldn't have a problem carrying my Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt.
However, I shoot way too fast for it.
I think what he's referring to is carrying a single action auto cocked and locked.
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