Clones

[StrawHat]

I don't want to offend anyone so I'll ask first for a change.

Can I post about Colt clones in this forum? Or would you prefer we go to the "All Other Revolvers" area?

Thanks

[rjrivero]

I don't see how anyone would be offended. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. SAA single action revolvers. Let's get them pictures up. Whats the worst thing that could happen? They move the thread. ;)

[StrawHat]

Whats the worst thing that could happen? They move the thread. ;)

Max could make us stand in the corner! :eek:

[rjrivero]

Max could make us stand in the corner! :eek:

I've given him more than one ulcer over the years, I'm sure. He's a forgiving kinda guy.

[StrawHat]

Okay, here are a couple of mine.

This is a Richards conversion of the 1860 Colt to handle the 44 Colt cartridge.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/RichardsConversion001.jpg

This is my 1860 snubby

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/1860Snubbieyetagain003.jpg

and one I wish were mine

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/62pocket.jpg

[Oriondk]

Wooo! Nice 1860's. I had one that I bought from Cabella's in the early 90's. I was really surpised at how accurate it was. I just hated cleaning the dang thing so I sold it.

[StrawHat]

Here are a couple more 1860s

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Piettapair.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Pietta1860withStags001.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Pietta1860002.jpg

I guess I like 1860s.

[StrawHat]

Nobody else has clones?

[Oriondk]

Nobody else has clones?

Only on my wish list.:D

[StrawHat]

A couple more clones;

Two Pocket Navies, 36 calibers on the 1849 frame.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/IMGP1432.jpg

A Pocket Police , contemporary to the Pocket Navies, supposedly used by New York PD. This one has one piece stag grips I fitted to it.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/IMGP1438.jpg

Last is a group shot of several snubbies, a Walker, an 1860 and the Pocket Police.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/IMGP1450.jpg

Hope you enjoy them.

[rjrivero]

Great looking guns. I really appreciate the black powder revolvers. I think it was Outlaw Jose Wales where Clint Eastwood had a couple of spare cylinders for his black powder revolver. It is an image burned into my mind from my youth.

[StrawHat]

Great looking guns. I really appreciate the black powder revolvers. I think it was Outlaw Jose Wales where Clint Eastwood had a couple of spare cylinders for his black powder revolver. It is an image burned into my mind from my youth.

Thank you, they are nice to carry and use.

Yeah, I saw the hollywood spare cylinder myth, It has been used in a couple of his movies. I have yet to find any contemporary mention of anyone carrying spare cylinder to swap out during action. Most carried spare revolvers as it was a lot quicker and less prone to misplace.

I'm not sure if spare cylinders were offered by the factories.

It does make for good drama, much like a showdown in the middle of the street.

[StrawHat]

The last photo in post 10 shows the three common frame sizes offered by Colts after 1847.

The Walker shared the honors for the largest frame with the Dragoon.

The Walker is much more popular today than when it was introduced, not unlike a lot of the reintroduced models of recent times both rifle and revolver. It was not a successful revovler and was modified almost immediately because of problems in the field and in manufacturing. The Dragoon revolver was the successor to the Walker. It was manufactured between 1848 and 1860 (or a bit later to use up parts).

The middle revolver is an 1860. This revolver is based on the midsized "Navy" frame of the 1851 Belt revovler. This frame size was produced from 1851 until c&b revovler production was halted in 1873.

The last revolver is the Pocket Police Model produced on the smallest of the three frames. This is the same frame Colts introduced in 1848 for the "Baby Dragoon" series of revolvers. It, and the 1860, were able to take advantage of advances in metalurgy and use the smaller frame and increase the caliber of the revolver. Production of this frame was between 1848 and the cessation of c&b production also.

[Oriondk]

I seem to remember reading that the Walker was like the magnum of it's day, but also that it blew up on occasion.
On the exchanging cylinder thing, I think the Remington New Army was the only gun that you could really change the cylinder quickly. Don't know if people did it or not though.

[StrawHat]

Yup, the Walker was one of the most powerful handguns available and it was the most powerful repeater of the day. It had problems with the loading lever dropping and tying up the cylinder for additional shots and the poor metalurgy of the day allowed more than a few cylinder to burst. I have seen a photo of Walkers with all matching numbers except the cylinder. I believe I am aware of at least three like that. Watch the auctions and you'll see them from time to time. The weight was another reason they fell into disfavor. When you phyically carried everything important to you on your person and your horse you tend to be picky about what you carry. Two Walkers go just over nine pounds, loaded. Two Dragoons tip the scales at about 8 pounds or a little less. That difference is appreciated by the horse. And carrying either a pair of Walkers or Dragoons on a belt is not going to happen for very long. Try it if you don't believe it.

The Dragoon also used less powder so that was considered a boon. The loading lever latch did not cure the problem but it lessened it considerably. But it wasn't until 1860 that a truly portable 44 revolver came into production. And even with the improved metal, Colts still had some 1860s that burst the cylinders. Some of the early 1860s had full fluted cylinders and these were the ones that burst. Not all of them but enough that Colts would replace any revolver returned to the factory with a non fluted cylinder. The full fluted cylinder was also used on the 1861 with similar problems although not nearly as many.

The Baby Dragoons were actually considered quite deadly even though made in 31 caliber. (The medical treatments of the day were such that any wound could lead to infection and either amputation or death. Same results from surgery too. Either way it was not good.) A simple case of a 31 in the pocket beat a Dragoon or Walker left on the horse.

[Oriondk]

Yup, the Walker was one of the most powerful handguns available and it was the most powerful repeater of the day. It had problems with the loading lever dropping and tying up the cylinder for additional shots and the poor metalurgy of the day allowed more than a few cylinder to burst. I have seen a photo of Walkers with all matching numbers except the cylinder. I believe I am aware of at least three like that. Watch the auctions and you'll see them from time to time. The weight was another reason they fell into disfavor. When you phyically carried everything important to you on your person and your horse you tend to be picky about what you carry. Two Walkers go just over nine pounds, loaded. Two Dragoons tip the scales at about 8 pounds or a little less. That difference is appreciated by the horse. And carrying either a pair of Walkers or Dragoons on a belt is not going to happen for very long. Try it if you don't believe it.

The Dragoon also used less powder so that was considered a boon. The loading lever latch did not cure the problem but it lessened it considerably. But it wasn't until 1860 that a truly portable 44 revolver came into production. And even with the improved metal, Colts still had some 1860s that burst the cylinders. Some of the early 1860s had full fluted cylinders and these were the ones that burst. Not all of them but enough that Colts would replace any revolver returned to the factory with a non fluted cylinder. The full fluted cylinder was also used on the 1861 with similar problems although not nearly as many.

The Baby Dragoons were actually considered quite deadly even though made in 31 caliber. (The medical treatments of the day were such that any wound could lead to infection and either amputation or death. Same results from surgery too. Either way it was not good.) A simple case of a 31 in the pocket beat a Dragoon or Walker left on the horse.

Interesting you mention that. I just read recently that in the mid 1800's a person enlisting in the calvary had to weigh less than 140 lbs., John Wayne nothwithstanding.:D

[StrawHat]

Yup, JW and others need not apply. The average trooper was not huge but still a large man for the time. The horses were usually half broke range stock bought locally and "trained" by the stockmen at the fort. It was a lot easier to get men than it was horses. (Keeping men was another story.)

The cavalry was more like mounted troopers than a full fledged cavalry. Especially after the Civil War it was realized that a sweeping cavalry charge had little place when fighting the Indians. The were only a few of them during the War. The horses were used to carry men and equipment to the area of the engagement and then corralled away from the fighting. Dead animals were eaten or left to rot.

Yup, JW and hollywood have portrayed it a bit different than it was. Shocking isn't it?

[Bob Wright]

Thanks for posting the photos of the 1860 Army Models. This revolver, in my opinion, was the most beautiful revolver of all time, based on looks alone. Next probably would be a 4 3/4" barreled Colt SAA, though the same barrel length in the New Frontier or Ruger Blackhawk would be mighty close behind.

Bob Wright

[StrawHat]

Thanks for posting the photos of the 1860 Army Models. This revolver, in my opinion, was the most beautiful revolver of all time, based on looks alone. Bob Wright

Personally, my favorite revolver is the Colts Model of 1861. I have an older pair manufactured by Uberti with iron backstraps and full fluted cylinders. The balance is slightly different, they just seem to hang a bit better than the 1860s. And there is hardly any recoil. They group round balls very nicely. If the 1851 has the same handling characteristics, I can see why it was one of the favorites of the Colts lineup.

I also like the lines of the Richards conversions. The short extractor tube and rear sight make the fine lines of the 1860 into great lines.